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Napa Police: Bus Station Fight Lands Gang Teens in Juvenile Hall

Two known Norteño gang members, aged 16 and 17, were booked at Juvenile Hall Friday afternoon following a reported gang fight at the Pearl Street transit station downtown, according to Napa police. Arrest information does not indicate convictions.

Two Napa teens known to police as members of the Norteño street gang were arrested Friday afternoon in connection with a street fight at the Pearl Street transit center downtown, according to a shift activity log from the :

On 08/31/2012 at 2:17 PM Officers were dispatched to the Vine Bus Station on Pearl St. for a reported fight. A victim was located and had visible injuries to his face, elbow, and knee. He additionally stated that he may have been knocked out. 

With the assistance of witnesses it was determined that the victim had been involved in an altercation. The victim was knocked to the ground and several subjects kicked and punched him in the head.  The suspects were later identified as a 16 year old male juvenile and a 17 year old male juvenile.  Both are known/documented norteno gang members. 

The two teens were booked into the Napa County Juvenile Justice Center on suspicion of disturbing the peace, assault with a deadly weapon/gang participation and violation of probation, police said.

Arrest information does not indicate convictions.

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vocal-de-local September 03, 2012 at 09:04 PM
If they are undocumented immgrants, send them back to their home country to serve their sentence. Give Mexico and Central America incentive to take them back by offering financial incentive to house them there. Certainly it would be less costly for us. Also, we need a law which allows the U.S. to deport anchor babies who commit crimes back to the country where their parents originated. The U.S. is becoming highly saturated with a population of people who migrated here to deal drugs and protect turf. They've passed the baton down to the next generation. The weight is becoming too heavy for us to handle.
Karl Hungus September 04, 2012 at 03:43 AM
Dear Ms. xthisisourland4, the important thing here is that no humans were involved.
vocal-de-local September 04, 2012 at 03:44 AM
xthis. learn to interpret what you read. I said "if" they are undocumented immigrants. I mentioned nothing about Nortenos. I was speaking of gangs in general. Oh, and please don't try to convince me that gang members are not undocumented immigrants, at least some of the time. Read the link below. I stick by my words. Gangs are bad. The culture evolved either from the influence inside prisons, after being around other Latino gang members or it was carried across the border. Gang members should be transferred back across the border into Mexico's prison system. The U.S. should do everything in its power to keep them from crossing back over here. We don't need their type here. Let them have complete immersion in the culture they so desire to be a part of except let it happen in a Mexican prison. I'm tired of coddling gang members in this country. http://www.examiner.com/article/as-illegal-immigration-spreads-so-do-dangerous-gangs
Lorie September 04, 2012 at 03:32 PM
What a great idea!...Let's put the [anchor babies] prisoners to work to pay their sentence and send their illegal alien parents back to where the came from while the white people who choose not to work and collect welfare instead continue to do so.
vocal-de-local September 04, 2012 at 06:44 PM
I agree that using cheap labor plays a role in a lot of the social problem we have. Basically, we subsidize industry so that they can make a higher profit. Industry pays cheap wages, we pay worker health care, housing and prison costs. However, I still think cultural difference plays a significant role. There's a machismo thing going on. Arabs have it too except it's manifested somewhat differently. I know someone who has an arab dad in another country and her dad attends these all male gatherings where woman are not allowed because they are viewed as second class citizens. Cultures who view women as equal, or more equal, do not tend to form predatory type gangs. We had that same predatory gang mentality in bikers in the 60s/70s. Once women started gaining equality, biker gangs more or less faded away in numbers and strength. You don't hear about biker gangs going into bars anymore and raping women like they did in the 70s. Combine machismo culture with a male who has difficulty assimilating into the non machismo culture because of language barriers and those males tend to be drawn to eachother for cultural support. I would rather have them dancing to mariachi than using weapons to destroy. If they must carry their culture here, let it be a good part of their culture, not the corrupt part of it. Drugs also play a big role too. Maybe their parents should have never told them that working the fields was disgraceful. Maybe their dad's should stick around too.
vocal-de-local September 04, 2012 at 06:49 PM
Lorie, how about making the welfare recipients (those who do not really need it because they are healthy) fill the void of those who were sent back to Mexico?
vocal-de-local September 04, 2012 at 07:41 PM
It's not politically correct to view gang members as bad. It's not PC to admit that there are cultural influences on their behavior. Oh btw, I can probably suggest that the Hells Angels gang culture originated in Germany and it's a negative expression of that culture, but to suggest that the Latino gangs are deeply rooted in a Latin American machismo culture and that it's a BAD part of their culture, well that's out of line! And here lies yet another reason we cannot solve the problem. We cannot solve a problem unless we identify its origins. Truth isn't always pretty, or PC. Perhaps if we send a message to gangs that they are BAD, it will weed out some of those who are uncomfortable with BAD. I'll bet that most gang members do not have a perception of gangs being bad. They view it as a normal branch of their culture. Ok, lets see if this gets flagged!
Belle (Orchid Lady) September 04, 2012 at 08:34 PM
Vocal- I see 4 comments from you. I don't know if this is happening to you, but, I have noticed every so often a comment that is showing on the "home page" or under the story, or in my e-mail, doesn't always come up right away on the site. If I hit shift-refresh on my browser (Firefox) then they appear. It's quite random from what I can tell.
vocal-de-local September 04, 2012 at 08:49 PM
Orchid Lady, one of my comments was flagged. My last comment probably sums up what I was trying to say on the flagged comment. So far they haven't flagged it. We shall see. This gang issue is important to me because an aquaintance of my son and a good friend of my nephew was shot down two weeks ago by gangs. This was just an innocent bystander walking two females to their vehicles after a swing dance event. Personally I do not think it was random gang crossfire, as the police concluded. I think this male was targeted as part of a gang initiation. He was the type of son that any parent would be happy to call their own, a good person. It's unforgiveable. As far as I'm concerned, gangs are begging for war when they begin randomly shooting and killing innocent people. And yet we allow it to continue to the point of not admitting they are bad!
vocal-de-local September 04, 2012 at 09:44 PM
Lorie, my two side by side comments are now missing an in between comment. I do not recall any of your comments being inappropriate enough to justify flagging.
Ash Leigh September 04, 2012 at 10:53 PM
My brother tried to get legal aid/assistance - He was told, the system was backed up for three weeks helping illegal immigrants. I was surprised. Who is there to help us American tax payers? I thought that's what that service was there for, not for immigrants. I'm all for people wanting a better life. Sometimes you have to go elsewhere to achieve it. There are rules to follow though. I will hi-five every foreigner going through the proper channels to become an American citizen. Good for them. It's the others out there, taking advantage of our American sources. Because of illegal immigrants taking advantage of our system, it lessens it for us Americans that need it as well.
vocal-de-local September 04, 2012 at 11:29 PM
You hit that nail on the head, Esiuol! Good comment! I will say, however, that it's difficult blaming immigrants when, in reality, it's the system that doesn't want to disrupt the status quo of having a large pool of low wage workers.
Belle (Orchid Lady) September 10, 2012 at 07:32 PM
Vocal- I'm sorry to hear about what happened to to the people you know. I too have been affected by Gangs, particularly Napa's gangs. I have a teenage son, who is at an age where he can be pressured, or even while trying to find his 'identity' may end up with friends that are in a gang, and be hurt by people who assume he is also in a gang. That is one of my fears, that someone will mistake him for a rival, or he will be hurt just because of someone he knows. So far he is staying away from people involved in the nonsense, and taking my advice. Gangs are bad, they serve NO purpose, unless you are in prison, or wish to join the Mafias they have set up on the 'outside'. Most of Napa's 'sheltered little kids don't even know what a 'real street gang' is. It really is stupid.
vocal-de-local September 11, 2012 at 05:52 AM
Orchid Lady, in response to your September 10, 2012, 12:32 pm comment: I wish peers of gang members would cut off gang social ties 100%. Instead, it appears as though peers maintain an odd sort of social respect for these creeps. They are put on a hierarchical level that's hard to define. Maybe peers are afraid of severing ties because they feel that gang affiliation, even on an acquantance level, will provide some level of protection if the need ever arises? I'm trying to think backwards in time to my own peer groups when I was growing up. We had hippies, car boys/greasers, the druggies (who were often also the hippies), the nerds, and the really rotten ones (bikers, thieves, liars etc who were often removed from the normal school population). Heck, in those days, pregnant teens were removed from the regular classrooms and treated as though they had leprosy or some sort of contagious disease! No kidding. What a different world that was. It kept the teen pregnancy rate in check I think. The guys who were really bad, well, most of the other peer groups had total disrespect for them. Mostly, badly behaving kids had no option but to hang with other badly behaving kids. Today, it seems as though gang members (and yes they are bad) are embraced, on some level, by other peer groups. If peers stop respecting them, gangs will have a harder time recruiting new members.
Belle (Orchid Lady) September 11, 2012 at 07:27 PM
Vocal- Agreed. It really is quite a strange thing to remain friends with someone (even from a distance) who has chosen to participate in a gang. I think kids have a hard time recognizing that their 'friend' is no longer the 'good kid' they new and grew up with. I think it's particularly difficult for kids who may have several friends go that route, and not wanting to feel ostracized from their neighborhood peers, remains cordial or friendly. I also think for young boys it is a sense of power, and protection to have friends who are in a gang. The kid in the gang will often offer to 'kid someones butt' if they mess with their friends, and that provides a false sense of security. I don't think that kids have the ability as teenagers to recognize the danger that just being seen with a gang member poses for them. They often falsely think all they have to do if someone thinks they are part of that gang, is just explain they aren't, and everything will be alright. That's hard to do when the gang mentality is shoot first ask questions later. If I had a friend or family member who went down the wrong path, I wouldn't associate with them anymore. That wasn't something that I learned until I was in my 20's though. Before that I saw the 'good' in everybody, and only after getting 'burned' repeatedly, did I recognize that I can't save people.
vocal-de-local September 11, 2012 at 07:59 PM
Lol Belle, I was also a trusting and naive teen. I honestly thought I could save everyone. I was in my thirties before realizing that no amount of societal coddling could change people who want to behave badly. Some people are just born with that disposition. The best we can do for them is to be hopeful that their parents are strong, loving, and know how to set boundaries. It sure doesn't help when so many fathers abandon their kids. This seems especially prevalent in the Latino culture. Correct me if I'm wrong but I think it's something that has to be acknowledged and fixed before any gang issue can be squelched. I have read about communities putting together Latino cultural acceptance events which is fine by me, but I also think energy should be directed toward the cultural problem of fathers abandoning their kids. It happens, but I think it's an especially big problem with Latino males. I have met some incredible Latino fathers before who are not the abandoning type. I wish some of them would step up to the plate and start a movement called "Latino fathers for the preservation of family"! Or..."Latino fathers against gangs"! This movement would need to start from good role model dads and work outwards from there in order to be effective. Fathers helping other fathers to become better dads with the goal of preventing gang entry, this movement would be awesome!
Belle (Orchid Lady) September 11, 2012 at 08:15 PM
Vocal- What I have personally noticed in the Latino culture, is the men are not really involved in child rearing. This is NOT as common in 2nd generation American Latinos as it is in 1st generation immigrants. My mother in law told me that in Mexico, it is very common, that if a woman leaves her husband, or a husband leaves the wife, that's it. She keeps the children, he starts another life. There is no child support, and visitation. Now keep in mind she is a bit 'old school' and as much as we are influenced by Latino culture here, they are probably influenced by ours as well, and things may have changed since she lived there. I don't know any Latino fathers who aren't present for their children, but I know that machismo makes it hard for the boys to get the close personal relationships that I think "American" Dads have with their kids. That said, it doesn't make them better or worse fathers, I just find Latino/Italian/German cultures makes it hard for fathers and sons to be 'emotionally available' in stead of stern, or being the disciplinarian of the family. Latino American culture, or Chicanos, are a different story, the heritage is there, but so is the American culture. I find it to be a beautiful fusion. I know plenty of kids who had great families, and great fathers who ended up in gangs. I don't think that it's all about Latino fathers, there is so much more involved, and often times by the time a parent knows "what's up", it's too late.
vocal-de-local September 11, 2012 at 08:39 PM
Orchid Lady, I completely agree, especially with the comment about the Latino/Italian/German cultures making it difficult for fathers and sons to be emotionally connected. Interestingly, Italian and Latino cultures tend to be very warm and loving toward their moms, well into adulthood. The American culture wants to sever mom/son bonds asap. Comments like "he's a momma's boy" don't help. It must feel like a challenge, blending the two cultures together, one which is machismo in nature and discourages father/son bonding and the other that socially excludes boys for being close to their moms. To top it off, boys are now using the 'gay' card to antagonize and manipulate their male peers adding yet another challenge for maintaining strong bonds with moms. No wonder they turn to gang relationships!
Belle (Orchid Lady) September 11, 2012 at 08:56 PM
Vocal-I think we are on the same page. I have a 'blended family' sort of. My kids are half Latino, and half Caucasian (Portuguese/Italian) and their father is (Chicano) but my husband is Mexican, and a 1st generation Mexican immigrant. Talk about blending of cultures. My son has been teased with the 'gay' name calling too, as well as used it back. I recently told him the next time someone uses it to try to 'embarrass you', use humor to your advantage, and ask the person "what's wrong with being gay? Are you homophobic?" He did, the kid had no response, and the entire gym laughed at the bully. Now, he see's there are alternatives to needing to 'prove your manhood'. They also sometimes deal with other kids telling them they aren't Mexican, even though they identify as such. My husband and my Ex, tell me I baby my son too much. My son is starting to act like I have five heads. LOL The pressures today are greater than they were even 10 years ago. Social media and the internet don't help either. One of the things I have found with kids who are joining gangs, is it starts out slowly, and they just get pulled in, to the anti-society mind set. The problem with gangs is they often view themselves, as different that society, society is square, and they don't belong. They use brainwashing tactics, and often times don't even know they are doing it. How do you get a kid back from a mentality that he/she will never be accepted by society or feels that 'society is stupid'?
vocal-de-local September 11, 2012 at 09:35 PM
I think it's a form of brainwashing as well. Kids today, being disconnected from their parents because it's "not cool" and then having the "you're gay" or "you're a nerd" label thrown at them is just an attempt to back them into a corner where they have a false sense of support from those who pushed them into that space. These kids need to recognize what's going on and how they are being manipulated. Gangs don't like members to be autonomous or to question 'their' authority. It's not a democratic process, that's for sure. Those who are attracted to gangs need to ask themselves if they are comfortable entering a sub culture which entirely strips them of their freedoms. They might as well move to a dictatorship country if that's what they desire. And good luck escaping the gang sub culture once they enter it. These kids will no longer feel as though they are in America. Gang sub cultures invent their own rules which includes killing those they lose trust in, even if it's just a perception. It's a paranoid culture of act first, think later.
Belle (Orchid Lady) September 11, 2012 at 10:30 PM
Vocal- Have you read the Napa County Gang and Youth Violence Master Plan? It has some really good information regarding Napa's Gangs and how they compare or differ from other gangs across the country. It's important not to confuse Napa's gangs with how other larger, organized gangs function, especially 'big city' gangs. If you haven't read it, it is a very valuable look in to what we as a county are dealing wit, as well as the Latino community. It describes the levels of gang participation, who is participating, what the plan to handle each 'type' of association is, and the demographics of Napa's gangs. I find it extremely interesting that Latinos are 3-1 more likely to be labeled a gang member, and they are more likely to be prosecuted harsher than non-Latino gang members. If you really want some information that's where I'd start, the graphs themselves are invaluable. That said it's my opinion that gangs in Napa, don't quite fit your description, from my own experiences. However, the youth involved, seem to me to be more focused on having fun with friends, smoking and drinking, and looking cool, than getting 'organized'. The violence that happens (IMHO) is usually a retaliation because one of their 'friends' was jumped, or their windows were broken etc. Seeing as how they almost never know WHO did for sure, the retaliation is usually on the first opposition they can find. That person and his friends then go out and repeat the process. It's a circle.

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